On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 02:23:50PM -0800, Aftab Mooshoo Bong Singh wrote:
With yahoo for email and google for usenet, I'd say you've got some
problems, yes.

--
GNU/Linux revenues last quarter: $1 Billion.
micros~1 revenues last quarter: $4 Billion.
It's no longer a question of windows or GNU, it's a question of *Unix* or GNU.

I work as an Information Technology Support Specialist for a small
firm that sells advertising slots to other companies. We have
approximately 130 employees that are located in various branches
around the country.
Late last year we were commissioned by our superiors to cut costs
because the economy was not being kind to us nor our industry in
general.We currently have 100's of thousands of dollars invested in
Microsoft and other Windows software consisting mostly of Microsoft
Office, some groupware, Adobe and various utilities like Symantec and
such. We had been hearing a lot about Linux and several of the staff
run Linux systems at home. We set up a Linux server to serve up our
internal web pages and it really worked out very nicely so we were
encouraged to move forth a few more steps toward migrating to Linux.
Initially we had Openoffice for Windows slipstreamed onto our
employees workstations and laptops for mobile employees.
Our reasoning was that since the majority of our employees work was
done within Microsoft Office, word processing, custom spreadsheets and
things like that, we would get to put Openoffice through it's paces to
see how compatible it would be with Microsoft Office.
It did not do well at all.
Our users as a whole HATED OPENOFFICE with a passion.
Now this is the Windows version, but we found out that the Linux
version is even worse.
When the survey's started to trickle in, Openoffice was a miserable
failure.
Comments like slow, buggy, not rendering spreadsheets properly,
terrible looking, bad interface and so forth were common.

At this point, we decided to try switching 20 employees who seemed to
like Openoffice to Redhat Linux.
In all honesty we were not prepared for the major backlash that we
were hit with.
The biggest complaint was that the fonts and screens looked awful.
The browser, mozilla had many problems especially with some of our in
and out of house training material.
Flash and Shockwave was unstable.
Most people complained that their systems seemed much slower with
Linux than with Windows.
While not state of the art our laptops are Thinkpad t30 and our
desktops are Dell P4 of various speeds.
We use multimedia to demo our packages to clients and this turned into
a disaster as the mobile employees had all kinds of troubles with the
projectors and sound cutting out all the time.

Linux made our presentations look very amateurish and we have
certainly lost clients because of it said one employee.

Ultimately we have put our plans to migrate toward Linux on indefinite
hold because it is plainly obvious that Linux needs a lot of work
before it can function in a professional capacity.
We are still serving our web pages via Linux and like I said, it works
very well.
But as a desktop system in a corporate environment Linux is a terrible
choice.

Aftab Moohoo Bong Singh

Aftab Mooshoo Bong Singh wrote:

<snip standard tale of woe>

1. "Your" site you are posting from is an open-relay.
2. "Your" site is 0wned.

3. We believe you, NOT!

Regards,
WS

--
Change to leews to mail

Aftab Mooshoo Bong Singh wrote:
Using it as a server, good use, one its eminently qualified to do.

Your users as a whole, were still fighting years of bad habits, and
adjusting to a new package, some resistance is to be expected, but
speaking from first had experience, if OO is the *FIRST* WP program a
person uses, they normally have about 300% less complaints than the
EX-Word people.

Not rendering a spreadsheet made with OO, or it didnt open their Office
spreadsheets as nicely as they hoped?

Slow/Buggy/Interface have all been polished a fair bit recently, and OO
loads faster than Word 2000, but slower than Word 97.

Its a matter of perspective once again, I dont believe OO is any
'slower' than MS Office at performing certain tasks (charting, graphs,
mail merge etc)

Oh please, the 'fonts look bad' argument went out of style years back,
the text in OO is much clearer for me than in Word 2K.

Thats because your in/out of house people used Microshit products, that
DONT FOLLOW STANDARDS.

Yeah, I'll agree on this one, but in case you hadn't heard, Macromedia
is now pushing towards making their current products work better under
Wine, and with native versions coming soon [hopefully]

Ok, you obviously have some clock watchers on cheap glue, *seemed* and
*WAS SLOWER* are two different things, does it matter if Windoze draws
your frames, and takes 20 seconds to fill it in? or if it takes Linux 10
seconds to draw the frames and all their contents at once?

I cannot think of a single task (other than crashing, or getting
infected with a virus) that Windows performs *faster* than Linux.

Okay, heres the question, if it was so much 'troubles' then why were you
giving your salespeople something that you were still 'pilot project'
testing? And why didnt they have Dual boot configurations, so as to work
with the programs they were familiar with when out of the office?

I'm guessing it was this one employee who actually lost you the client,
and once again, why werent you using your existing tools? instead of
trying to switch over cold turkey, and expect an office full of people
to change overnight?

If by 'professional' you mean Desktop use, I agree, it still needs a lot
of work before being acceptable to corporations everywhere.

Currently You should fire up google and see the problems people had
3-5 years ago, and they've persevered, and look where Linux is now.

Give us time to grow, and let more of our children LEARN and GROW with
linux, and OSS, and not get stuck into the Microsoft Rut, and you'll
find acceptance of linux much easier, as you wont be spending time
trying to un-learn bad habits from your employees.

I'm glad you've realized that Linux's greatest strength right now comes
from its networking and file serving skills, and continue to use it even
though your desktop project stumbled.

Philip

Philip Callan wrote:

Is it really Macromedia who does this? There is a company that has made some
application to be used for browsers to run microsoft windows based plugins,
could it be that product you are thinking about?

I can't say I ever been disappointed at Flash/Shockwave, those seems to work
well on all the distros I have been used.



//Aho

This post has been showing up off and on past year or so with very little
variation. Every time he learns from inconsistencies and mistakes and
changes it slightly.

On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 11:12:38PM +0000, AJ wrote:
Can't seem to resist that siren song of yahoo->google, though, can he?

--
GNU/Linux revenues last quarter: $1 Billion.
micros~1 revenues last quarter: $4 Billion.
It's no longer a question of windows or GNU, it's a question of *Unix* or GNU.

Aftab Mooshoo Bong Singh is alleged to have said in comp.os.linux.advocacy:

<snip obvious troll>

Multi DNSBL Lookup 202.153.32.60 http://openrbl.org/ip/202/153/32/60.htm

Lookup 202.153.32.60 (unresolved) in 20+11 Zones
AS: 202.153.32.0/24 AS17754 Excellmedia Hyderabad/Andhra Pradesh
Net 202.153.32-47 EXCELL-NET Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh @yuktee.net
Results: Positive=6, Negative=25 (2004-03-05 23:25:45 UTC)
@SPAM/spamsource: 202.153.32/24: 553 PROXY 202.153.32.137,59,60,86 SW BSW
BSWN 2003-07
DSBL/dsbl.org: 553 DSBL Insecure host; DSBL Unconfirmed [Remove]
NJABL/njabl.org: 553 NJABL open proxy -- 1051499104 [Remove]
REYNOLDS/bl: 553 REYNOLDS Open Http Proxy Server Block List [Remove]
SORBS/sorbs.net: 553 SORBS HTTP [Remove]
BLARS/block.blars.org: INET 127.1.0.49

Might wanna take a look there before you try your next set of lies.

--
Gates' Law: Every 18 months the speed of software halves.

Aftab Mooshoo Bong Singh wrote:

Liar.

They should've fired you.


Other staff smarter than you, obviously.


So are you.

Funny, the same attributes of ms word.

Liar, again.

The moron who made the slides was the amateurish: GIGO

Good, now get lost.


Afat Moorish Bong Moron.

--

A fatal exception 0E has occurred at 0028:C000BD1D in VXD VMM(01) +
0000AD1D. The current application will be terminated.

In article <f52514bf.0403051423.597e9baf@posting.google.com > (Fri, 05 Mar
2004 14:23:50 -0800), Aftab Mooshoo Bong Singh wrote:

No, you don't. You work as an Infected Turd Sewage Strainer.

--
"[Linux kernel v2.6 has] enterprise-level performance: you see 32-way
multiprocessor SMP configurations, 128-way NUMA configurations, high
degrees of reliability."
-- Darl McBride. CEO, The SCO Group. Harvard University lecture. 2/2/2004.

On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 05:38:56PM -0700, Hamilcar Barca wrote:
Hey, he didn't say anything about being an MCSE.

--
GNU/Linux revenues last quarter: $1 Billion.
micros~1 revenues last quarter: $4 Billion.
It's no longer a question of windows or GNU, it's a question of *Unix* or GNU.

If you have a crappy IT department, they'll do a crappy job and people will
notice. No need to malign the OS for the IT department's obviously poor
performance.

A poorly planned roll-out, failure to setup the environment or tools for the
end-user, spinging stuff on the users, no assessment of requirements. The
IT staff should be sacked and replaced with compentent personnel.

None of the things you mention would have applied if the IT deprtment would
have done their job. They would have selected a desktop Linux distribution,
they would have setup the UI to mimic what the users are familiar with and
done the little things like check the "antialias fonts" box in the control
panel, and even turn on sub-pixel hinting...

You can't blame the OS for the arrogance and incompoetence of the IT staff.


Aftab Mooshoo Bong Singh wrote:

--
remove .spam from address to reply by e-mail.

In article <20040306003512.GV1101@gnuyork.org> (Sat, 06 Mar 2004 00:40:55
+0000), Billy O'Connor wrote:

You're absolutely right: He didn't claim to be a Microsoft Certified
Sewage Examiner. I believe that's intended to be a step up from Sewage
Strainer, and has the Microsoft[C] Seal of Approval.

--
[C] Continuing Criminal Enterprise.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:23:50 -0800, Aftab Mooshoo Bong Singh wrote:

Linux has been a great success at Google!
Plonk Author and plonk thread!

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:58:53 +0100, J.O. Aho wrote:

Gee, I wonder why. From the statement at mozilla.org, it really sounds
like things are going smooth under linux:

"Scripting Flash does NOT work with gcc3 builds of Mozilla.
If Flash Player does not work, make sure you have a compatible version of
libstdc++ present (libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3). On RedHat based systems,
install the package "compat-libstdc++" (Package "compat" on SuSE,
"libstdc++2.10" on Mandrake 9.2). Alternatively, you can try Flashfix,
which patches the Flash plugin to get around this requirement."


You're thinking of Code Weavers Crossover Plugin.

Wine is one of those linux technologies that isn't quite ready yet but
is just on the verge of becoming stable, mature, and powerful.
In fact, it's been on the verge for years, and I suspect it will stay on
the verge for many more years to come.

Yes, you have been used.

In fairness, i have found every Linux distribution apart from slackware
and debian to be incredibly slow - until I did what I do to windows -
disable all uncessesary services and background processes

Fred Emmott wrote:

And I don't believe you
--
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice which can be equally well
explained by stupidity

Aftab Mooshoo Bong Singh wrote:
[snipped]

the key here is that the team within your organization
did not do a correct job of migrating people to Linux
and it's applications. that's where the true problem
is when we hear about failed migrations.

just because a few of your folks "run Linux at home"
doesnt make them the appropriate people to execute
a corporation's migration to Linux. there are so many
nuances involved, you need a professional team of
Linux-migration specialists to come in and execute
this process.

and this goes for ANY sort of major shift in environment,
not just migrating to Linux. there is a major paradigm
shift, in addition to the technical shift. for example,
you cant just install OO.org on peoples' machines and
expect them to be productive - the product operates in
a different manner than M$ Office. you have to have a
specialist who understands the paradigm shift to
effectively move people to OO.org.

there are far too many successful migrations to desktop
Linux [within large organizations] to take your failed
example seriously.**one*coming*up*is*IBM's*full*migration
to desktop Linux [within IBM] by 2005.
..
--
<< http://michaeljtobler.homelinux.com/ >>
A copy of the universe is not what is required of art;
one of the damned things is ample. - Rebecca West

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

mjt <mjtobler@removethis_mail.ru> wrote:
The key here is that you probably replied to a troll, posting
trough an open http proxy in India.

[1]± Multi DNSBL Lookup 202.153.32.60
http://openrbl.org/ip/202/153/32/60.htm

Lookup 202.153.32.60 (unresolved) in 20+11 Zones
AS: [2]202.153.32.0/24 [3]AS17754 [4]IN Excellmedia
Hyderabad/Andhra
Pradesh
Net [5]202.153.32-47 [6]EXCELL-NET [7]IN Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh
[8]@yuktee.net
Results: Positive=6, Negative=25 (2004-03-06 14:30:31 UTC)
* [9]@SPAM/spamsource: 202.153.32/24: 553 PROXY
202.153.32.137,59,60,86 SW BSW BSWN 2003-07
* [10]DSBL/dsbl.org: 553 DSBL Insecure host; DSBL Unconfirmed
[11][Remove]
* [12]NJABL/njabl.org: 553 NJABL open proxy -- 1051499104
[13][Remove]
* [14]REYNOLDS/bl: 553 REYNOLDS Open Http Proxy Server Block List
[15][Remove]
* [16]SORBS/sorbs.net: 553 SORBS HTTP [17][Remove]

Probably a simple google troll.

- --
Michael Heiming (GPG-Key ID: 0xEDD27B94)

Remove +SIGNS and www. if you expect an answer, sorry for
inconvenience, but I get tons of spam.
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9Qgl9+z2fxlMmdn/QCHNGRY=
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Michael Heiming wrote:

.... hi Michael ... yea, i was sure of it, but i thought
i'd address the issue anyway, applying a positive spin
on the negative post
..
--
<< http://michaeljtobler.homelinux.com/ >>
Fuch's Warning: If you actually look like your
passport photo, you aren't well enough to travel.