Read this article about aftermarket ink.

http://www.wilhelm-research.com/dpn/...uropeanInk.pdf


Some of the companies touted in this ng fails the test. Soon the
defenders will come out of the woodwork.

If you are new to this ng then read these articles from the professionals.

Aftermarket inks don't fail. Of course, the quality in some features is
less. In which features and how much less? Depends...
On the other hand HP have done the impossible, 73 years longevity with a
paper/ink combination. Indeed a very high research. A couple years before,
none would expect any logevity more than 10 years with dye inks.

--
Yianni
in@mailbox9.gr (remove number nine to send me email)



"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
news:ZqOXg.16344$7I1.456@newssvr27.news.prodigy.ne t...

"Yianni" <in@mailbox9.gr> wrote in message
news:1160786873.788516@athprx03...
At Measekite's generous invitation I did read the article and found
(surprise, surprise!) that his conclusion was a leap from a particular
narrowly defined product test to the general condemnation of "companies
touted on this NG."
The above posted link to a Wilhelm presentation at an HP conference dealt
only with commercially refilled HP cartridges. I don't recall seeing anyone
on this NG posting recommendations on refilled HP carts from the companies
mentioned in this news release. "Failure" is a broad term. With various
aftermarket HP refilled carts paired to several brands of paper there was
quite a broad range of projected fading characteristics. Wilhelm's tests
subject ink/paper combinations to accelerated fading light and ozone tests
and extrapolate from the data how many years they will take to fade.
Although some people question his objectivity, in lieu of other data to the
contrary I would stipulate, for the sake of argument, that his data is
totally valid.

In the presentation reported at the HP conference some of the ink/paper
combinations resisted fading for four to five years. For many people this
is adequate and is a good reason for using these products. There was no
mention of "clogging" of the printheads reported. "Failure" is a conclusion
that Wilhelm didn't state. He reported his data and Measekite drew the
conclusion. Fortunately MK also posted the link that so that we can all
draw our own conclusions. For the majority of my printing needs, if I owned
the HP printers that used the carts tested, Wilhelm would have done me the
great favor of showing me which of the ink/paper combinations were the most
stable for the longest time and which ones to avoid. It is a better service
to the participants of this NG to present the link and let others draw their
own conclusions. Failure is too broad a term as Yianni suggests.

I don't believe that there are any HP aftermarket carts manufactured to
replace HP carts with integral printheads. Aftermarket HP carts are
original HP carts that have been refilled and relabled. Since I have never
used these products I can't comment on their efficacy. As usual, Measkite
brands ALL aftermarket products as failures when reading an article about a
very narrow segment of the aftermarket products. The article says nothing
about the bulk refill inks for Canon carts that have been recommended on
this NG. Users of these Canon refill inks, myself included, have stated
that prints we have made with these inks have not exhibited obvious fading
when stored in albums or displayed under glass in frames for several years.
In another article the Wilhelm data on Canon aftermarket inks was taken from
tests of prefilled carts that no one on this NG has reported using.

There was an evaluation of fading characteristics of several of the bulk
refill Canon aftermarket inks from exposure to UV light on the nifty-stuff
forum several months ago. It is there for anyone to see, and you can draw
your own conclusions as to the usefulness of these products for yourself.
It did show that OEM Canon inks faded less than the aftermarket inks that
were evaluated when subjected to exposure of strong UV lights for extended,
measured periods of time. While not done with the precision of the Wilhelm
tests, this project did show the fading characteristics of various inks
comparte to Canon OEM inks.

The dye based inks that Canon printers use are definitely not archival as
compared to the pigment based inks that Epson uses (as tested and reported
by Wilhelm). Nonetheless, they probably outlast images made with the best
of the Canon aftermarket inks that the NG participants use. I, and several
other participants on this NG, are willing to have our photos potentially
last a few years less and spend one tenth the cost of OEM whle still
printing beautiful photos. Preserved under glass and not directly exposed
to UV light, I have phots that I printed more than two years ago that still
have the color integrity and balance they did when printed with aftermarket
refill ink. AND good quality Canon aftermarket bulk refill inks don't harm
your printer or printhead.

Yianni wrote:
obsession problem.

--
Paul (why dont you call me i feel like flying in two)
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

"Yianni" <in@mailbox9.gr> wrote in message
news:1160786873.788516@athprx03...

I woud never have seen this rubbish if you hadnt replied. Please dont feed
the trolls

Burt wrote:
would even post such misleading statements and obvious lies.
Now I've come to expect it.
Frank

Some times, some things are amusing too. On the other hand, some times it's
better to show the facts...
First of all HP chose some not known companies (tesco, embatex and
jessops...) for its test. I think somewhere somehow, I have heard about
jessops, but I'm not sure. And two known companies that sells in European
market (kmp and inktec). This test focus on European market.
In another previous test HP had chosen mainly some USA chain stores. If
someone interested on it, I could send it.
From the aspect of HP, it tries to persuade people he has better inks. I can
understand it. Half truth, half false.
I don't care much, all people some times tell lies, some other times the
half truth, companies the same. People WE are biased in many things in our
life. Could you see it in yourself? If yes, you won't bother. I'm not in one
or in the other side (even though I refill/remanufacture for living). For me
there aren't sides...

If someone tell me "I never want to use aftermarket inks" I understand it.
He/she is right. There are pros and cons in all selections. I only want to
give the correct information. But, think about it, is there any person
having the correct info in all aspects?

"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote:
Burt
Excellent response to a biased conclusion.
Out of interest there are some compatible cartridges available for HP printers
with integrated heads. These are limited to designs that are no longer
protected by patent.
Examples are #78 and I believe #15 and some older designs. These are
manufactured in China by Inctec (if I recall correctly).
Tony

Tony <TonytheTigurrrrr@aim.com> writes:
Hmm, I see Inctec refill inks for #78 but no new cartridges other than
HP. Just remanufactured ones.

Mike wrote:

And the truth hurts but this is what the foremost industry expert says
and is validated by actual laboratory test data.

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
http://www.printec.com.cn/printec_en...patible/hp.htm
As I mentioned I was not sure whether I had got the manufacturer right.
These are compatibles not refilled cartridges, I am almost positive that they
also provide #23 and #15 compatibles also.
Tony

"Yianni" <in@mailbox9.gr> wrote in news:1160862336.281034@athnrd02:

Tesco is a huge grocery/department store chain. If anything, they buy
refilled or aftermarket carts in quantity, on contract from one of the
better equipped factories.

Wankatoa wrote:

"Burt" &lt;sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net&gt; wrotenews:wpaYg.22664$Ij.10020@newssvr14.news.prod igy.com:



"Yianni" &lt;in@mailbox9.gr&gt; wrote in message news:1160786873.788516@athprx03...



Aftermarket inks don't fail. Of course, the quality in some features is less. In which features and how much less? Depends... On the other hand HP have done the impossible, 73 years longevity with a paper/ink combination. Indeed a very high research. A couple years before, none would expect any logevity more than 10 years with dye inks. -- Yianni in@mailbox9.gr (remove number nine to send me email) "measekite" &lt;inkystinky@oem.com&gt; wrote in message news:ZqOXg.16344$7I1.456@newssvr27.news.prodigy.ne t...



Read this article about aftermarket ink. http://www.wilhelm-research.com/dpn/...uropeanInk.pdf Some of the companies touted in this ng fails the test. Soon the defenders will come out of the woodwork. If you are new to this ng then read these articles from the professionals.



At Measekite's generous invitation I did read the article and found (surprise, surprise!) that his conclusion was a leap from a particular narrowly defined product test to the general condemnation of "companies touted on this NG." The above posted link to a Wilhelm presentation at an HP conference dealt only with commercially refilled HP cartridges. I don't recall seeing anyone on this NG posting recommendations on refilled HP carts from the companies mentioned in this news release. "Failure" is a broad term. With various aftermarket HP refilled carts paired to several brands of paper there was quite a broad range of projected fading characteristics. Wilhelm's tests subject ink/paper combinations to accelerated fading light and ozone tests and extrapolate from the data how many years they will take to fade. Although some people question his objectivity, in lieu of other data to the contrary I would stipulate, for the sake of argument, that his data is totally valid. In the presentation reported at the HP conference some of the ink/paper combinations resisted fading for four to five years. For many people this is adequate and is a good reason for using these products. There was no mention of "clogging" of the printheads reported. "Failure" is a conclusion that Wilhelm didn't state. He reported his data and Measekite drew the conclusion. Fortunately MK also posted the link that so that we can all draw our own conclusions. For the majority of my printing needs, if I owned the HP printers that used the carts tested, Wilhelm would have done me the great favor of showing me which of the ink/paper combinations were the most stable for the longest time and which ones to avoid. It is a better service to the participants of this NG to present the link and let others draw their own conclusions. Failure is too broad a term as Yianni suggests. I don't believe that there are any HP aftermarket carts manufactured to replace HP carts with integral printheads. Aftermarket HP carts are original HP carts that have been refilled and relabled. Since I have never used these products I can't comment on their efficacy. As usual, Measkite brands ALL aftermarket products as failures when reading an article about a very narrow segment of the aftermarket products. The article says nothing about the bulk refill inks for Canon carts that have been recommended on this NG. Users of these Canon refill inks, myself included, have stated that prints we have made with these inks have not exhibited obvious fading when stored in albums or displayed under glass in frames for several years. In another article the Wilhelm data on Canon aftermarket inks was taken from tests of prefilled carts that no one on this NG has reported using. There was an evaluation of fading characteristics of several of the bulk refill Canon aftermarket inks from exposure to UV light on the nifty-stuff forum several months ago. It is there for anyone to see, and you can draw your own conclusions as to the usefulness of these products for yourself. It did show that OEM Canon inks faded less than the aftermarket inks that were evaluated when subjected to exposure of strong UV lights for extended, measured periods of time. While not done with the precision of the Wilhelm tests, this project did show the fading characteristics of various inks comparte to Canon OEM inks. The dye based inks that Canon printers use are definitely not archival as compared to the pigment based inks that Epson uses (as tested and reported by Wilhelm). Nonetheless, they probably outlast images made with the best of the Canon aftermarket inks that the NG participants use. I, and several other participants on this NG, are willing to have our photos potentially last a few years less and spend one tenth the cost of OEM whle still printing beautiful photos. Preserved under glass and not directly exposed to UV light, I have phots that I printed more than two years ago that still have the color integrity and balance they did when printed with aftermarket refill ink. AND good quality Canon aftermarket bulk refill inks don't harm your printer or printhead.



There are hundreds of millions of dollars in pure profit and the health of HP and other companies at stake if everyone wises up and learns how to refill their own ink cartridges.


But it appears only stupid people are wise.


HP would go bankrupt without their ink cart business.


And other dummies claim Canon and Epson would also go bankrupt.&nbsp; Then there will be no printers so one refill will last an eternity.&nbsp; What a joke.


Anything in the news or posted to the contrary is akin to 50 years of doctors, lawyers, politicians and researchers all telling us that cigarette smoking was good for us and made us look cool. The same liars and con artists and shills are telling us that aftermarket ink is bad and you're a bad boy if you go that route.


Nobody cares who is bad and who is stupid but generic ink is much higher in risk let alone giving lower quality results (that some gladly accept) and have a higher propensity to fade.


I'm surprise there hasn't been a Fatwa issued against refilling and that Billy Graham hasn't told us we'll all go to hell, yet.

Some are already there


Liars lie, and add lots of money to the equation and you add a little numeric number to each word, just to the right and above that last letter.