Canon in a new paper article stated that there is not much difference
between OEM black ink and generic.

Here's the artricle:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...=1149630611469

It also goes on to say

"If all you're printing is black text then I'm sure there's not much
difference. But not many people these days are buying printers to just print
out emails. They're doing other things with them."

So they are really not admitting to anything. It's the colours that count.

Don't get me wrong. I NEVER use OEM ink only 3rd party, I save the OEM that
comes with the printer for either of two uses.

1. To put into the printer if it ever needs returning
2. To include with the printer when I finally sell it.

We all know that with the right 3rd party ink the results are indiscernible
from OEM.

That's what we want the printer manufactures to admit to.


Mikey

Mikey wrote:

look worse and besides there is no such thing as the right generice
because they will never tell you what you are getting. get with the program

measekite wrote:
WHAT??????????

He said:

"If all you're printing is black text then I'm sure there's not much
difference. But not many people these days are buying printers to just
print out emails. They're doing other things with them."

I have only used oem inks once in over 10 years. that was with my Epson
stylus 300. Since than I have only used aftermarket inks. NEVER HAD A
PROBLEM....PERIOD.

Ian wrote:
That's something I've known for years. It took Canon a while to finally
admit it.

Naturally, Canon's not going to admit there's not much difference
between OEM color and certain generics - or there goes the cash cow.

-Taliesyn

Ian wrote:

Ditto here; disregard the OEM troll. I've used aftermarket inks for
about the same time period. I have 3 printers, all use aftermarket inks.
All are working perfectly, and I have more affordable ink than I know
what to do with. I had a failed printhead once on a new printer (after
less than 2 months). It was a bum OEM printhead. It was replaced and
replacement continues to work with same aftermarket inks almost a year
and a half later.

-Taliesyn

Taliesyn wrote:

disregard the generic troll.

already lost 1 printhead but he is stubborn

he forgot to tell you about all of the fading that was reported at
www.wilhelm.com, an independent test lab

measekite wrote:

Who's Wilhelm?

If some guy named "Wilhelm" was working in the lab late one night,
and his eyes beheld an eerie sight - fading. Then I suggest he not
expose his unprotected prints to Frankenstein's bad breath, strong
sunlight, kitchen fumes, heat or diesel exhaust. I live in a
monster-free environment and haven't noticed any fading on any of my
protected photos (behind glass) or special projects kept away from the
bright lights, the clutches of zombies, Count Dracula, Igor AND his
baying hounds. . . Even framed prints in the kitchen have exhibited no
fading. Happy printing!

-Taliesyn

Sniped do to TYPE_ARRHEA.

Are you calling Canon liars?

The manager of the technical marketing group at Canon said:

"If all you're printing is black text then I'm sure there's not much
difference. But not many people these days are buying printers to just
print out emails. They're doing other things with them."

Why would I care what www.wilhelm.com says. Canon said:

"If all you're printing is black text then I'm sure there's not much
difference. But not many people these days are buying printers to just
print out emails. They're doing other things with them."

PERIOD........

measekite said <snipped per request>:

In regards to printheads, canon's offical life of the printhead is
about 10 cartridge changes (their numbers my math). Others have
reported as high as 20. And I would have to say it's true I had to
replace a printhead on a printer using aftermarket ink, but at the
exact same time I had to replace the printhead on a printer using OEM
ink. Each printer didn't get the same amount of use, one was actually
used for documents from time to time, where the other didn't get hardly
any document use... and I suspect that the canon cleaning cycles didn't
clean the pigmented black because the printer was being used, and this
lack of use over months resulted in a serious clog. It may have been
possible to clean, but as canon issues free printheads under warranty,
and beyond warranty it seems, I let canon replace it. They are happy
to do this so long as you've done I believe 3 deep cleans.

Now... as far as OEM canon black being better than aftermarket black...
I'm one of the few who has noticed a difference on select papers. I
can't say i've noticed a difference between OEM and aftermarket on
office depot inkjet paper, nor canon's double sided matte paper, and
the price is somewhat reasonable. But I would also submit that since
we are talking about pigmented inks rather than dye that faiding isn't
so much an issue. I can say I have used 6 oz of MIS pigmented black
without an issue, but the issue I believe is not printing for 2 to 3
weeks followed by gasket falure. I estimate only 4 cartridge changes
on my mp760 of OEM before serious clogging and heavy banding.

Ian wrote:
oem plant. He has never used after market inks, has one but one 3 yr old
printer and obviously, is absent a brain.
Kill file his stupid ass!
Frank

Taliesyn wrote:

this is the type of reply that is expected from a high school kid who
cannot admit the truth

Your just pissed because Canon suckered you all these
years...HAHAHA...LOSER.

If generic inks are just as good as Canon OEM inks...than brand name
aftermarket inks must be better.

Measekite, you need a life...BAD. I viewed your profile...5476 messages

in 1 year...OH MY GOD. Talk about TYPE-ARRHEA. More than 15 messages a
day...everyday...Just on Google!!! WOW!!!! DUDE YOU NEED A
LIFE...BBBBBBAAAAADDDDDD.

measekite said "snipped per request"

I don't think the issue is Taliesyn accepting the truth, the fact is in
Canada it would apparently cost as much as the printer to buy OEM ink.
I.e. a Canadian CAD$130 ip4200 would cost CAD$113 to buy new tanks at
staples.ca. That's in us terms USD$117.40 for the pritner and USD$102
to refill. A kit from hobbicolors costs less and provides about 4
refills of black, and about 4 refills of color, and costs less than
US$30 each, or CAD$33. You save about CAD$84 each time, or over
CAD$336 if you use the whole set.

In US dollars, it is possible to find the printer for $80ish, and the
ink you can buy for $70ish. That $22 hobbicolor kit means you saved
US$48 the first refill, $118 the second, and $258 the 4th. The older
generation you broke even if you printed using 2.5 sets of cartridges,
but on the ip4200 you break even after 1.5 sets of cartridges.

If aftermarket ink results in your printer exploding, it's no great
loss because the OEM ink would cost so close to the value of the
printer that you might as well buy printers, so long as you print at
least 1.5 cartridges. If you don't, your loss is $32 dollars which is
the cost of the printer minus the cost of the OEM ink it comes with.

The argument that aftermarket ink can affect printhead life is a decent
enough one to consider. There is no evidence as to what this effect
is, but this is a reasonable assumption. But so long as you are able
to refill your printer twice on bulk ink, you saved so much money that
buying a new printer is cheaper.

The only person here not accepting the truth is Measekite. OEM ink
costs so much that buying a printer only costs 5% to 10% more. So if
aftermarket ink kills a print head eventually, it is still cheaper.
One might still want to use OEM ink, and that is their business.

zakezuke wrote:

Taliesyn always accepts the truth from people who talk common sense.

My 3 printers have been running a total of 37 months (cumulative)
without a printhead failure - or even a clog, using aftermarket inks.
That's more than 3 years of of use. I think that's a marvelous record
that speaks for itself, making "OEMeasekite's" comments totally bogus
and irrelevant. Fade... what's that?

-Taliesyn

Taliesyn wrote:

I can believe it... I know users of s520s, i560s, and i950s which are
still in service. In fact I just picked up a i550 at goodwill for a
friend which in it's service mode said it had printed over 8000 prints.
I presume OEM ink as the ink which it came with was OEM. It "did"
have a clog but it was easily resolved with ammonia. It was a $8.00
printer and I felt that even if the head was toast it was worth it for
the spare cartridges. I can't say output on the i550 looked as good as
my ip3000, but as I was using bci-6 compatable ink I think that might
have been an issue.

I have to say I have notided faiding more so with MIS ink than OEM,
this is for prints in direct sunlight. All tests i've seen thus far
sugest that the brands of aftermarket typicaly sold including formulabs
and image specalists fade more quickly than OEM.

zakezuke wrote:
For me it all comes down to balancing quality (including fading) of my
aftermarket inks versus how fast my money would "fade" if I used OEM
inks. In my case it's not even a close debate/issue/consideration. I get
good quality inks, I don't have cleaning/clogging problems and I haven't
noticed any supposed fading. But I would definitely notice that I'd be
handing over close to $100 CDN each time for a measely 2 ounces of
colored liquid. It's almost more preferable to just add $29 and get a
whole new printer with a set of free cartridges instead.

-Taliesyn

Taliesyn wrote:

That would make ecconomic sence. I am interested in weink's solution
fetching US$15 per 135ml, as well as Lyson's fotonic which seems to
fetch us$30ish per 8oz, though presently I don't know of any lyson
solution for the new series of canons. Lyson makes claims of being
more lightfast than canon, as well as weink's solution on red river
papers. I've not seen them tested in any way what so ever, but if
there was some proof they fair better than MIS or Hobbi colors i'd
spend the extra money in exchange for longer print life.

But for now i'll give Hobbicolors a shot. I know you were interested
in how well the WC8 inks worked in a bci-6 series printer set for
Japanese mode, and I should have that data sometime in the next week.

That's not exactly what the Canon representative quotation implied.

He implied that if you are only printing black TEXT then the ink used
probably doesn't make a lot of difference. That doesn't mean that
generic black ink is the same as OEM, but that in text applications it
probably isn't important.

However, I use 3rd party inks without major consequence in my Epson dye
printers, so I am not stating they are no good, just that the quote in
the article discussed has been taken out of context.

Art



Ian wrote:

Henry Wilhelm is probably the most established authority on color
permanence in printed materials in the world. He has literally written
the book on fading and storage of photographic dye materials, and has
since moved his attention to inks used for printing. His facilities and
labs are considered the foremost authorized source for fade testing, and
are used by HP, Canon and Epson for their test results.

He did take a bit of a beating some years back when his tests on Epson
dye inks neglected to consider ozone fading, which was causing the
failure of the light cyan ink in the early six color ink sets. He now
tests for this and other environmental conditions.

Although no accelerated test can mimic exact aging conditions, Wilhelm
probably has the most scientifically accurate methodology in use today
and personally, I consider him the most trustworthy of all sources for
this information.

Art


Taliesyn wrote: