I did quite a bit of shopping before buying an Epson RX-500 one year
ago, for about $250. Now I am seeing it advertised in my area at a
store for $100. I know
they sell printers just to get us to buy ink, but this seems
ridiculous. It's true they have recently introduced the RX-600, but
this printer is basically the same as the
RX-500 with a gimmicky viewer window for scanned images on the printer
itself.

Sherwin D.

I have just bought one in the UK, but its just being discontinued as is the
RX600
looks like thre is a new RX620 replacing the RX600 but nothing replacing the
RX500.
Both have just been reduced heavily in pricing indicating end of life.

"sherwindu" <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:421043AE.E6DE10D1@comcast.net...

I have tried several different third-party cartridge manufacturers and none
of them have ever performed as well as the Epson cartridges. All of the
faulty cartridges were replaced, free of charge, with equally faulty
cartridges. I have never, since then, used anything but factory Epson
cartridges in my Epson printers.

Yes, cartridge costs are outrageous, no matter what printer you have. I
think we all would like to see a reduction in retail pricing of about 30% to
40%.

"pete" <pete@maildox.com> wrote in message
news:0vf111dckqdi537buespfqipq7djdk5p48@4ax.com...

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 00:22:38 -0600, sherwindu <sherwindu@comcast.net>
wrote:

rather pay more for the printer, get good support and warranty and pay
less for the ink.

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
veni, vidi, reliqui

Hecate wrote:

The 4 makers - if you count Lexmark ;-) - are fighting for a larger
share of the "printer pie" by undercutting the competition. Obviously,
the company with the most money available to bankroll the "The Great
Printer Give-away" hopes to be the "Microsoft" of the printer business.
At least that's how I look at this intensely interesting "paint ball"
battle.

-Taliesyn

How much more for the printer and how much less for the ink? I would
pay 20% more for the printer to get 40% less for the ink. They will
still make a profit on both. They will probably make more gross revenue
on the ink because people would print a lot more and be less conservative.

Hecate wrote:

measekite wrote:

I used to be that way when I got my first printer, a clunky Epson.
I conserved ink due to the cost, permitting myself just 1 or 2 color
Epson carts per year. Then I discovered generic carts (oh, brave man,
I thought!). A step in the right direction, they were considerably
cheaper. Later, I got the urge to refill them myself (oh kinky!), first
with small kit bottles and now the larger 8 oz bulk bottles (oh
liberated man!). Now I use ink like it was Gatorade.

With tons of affordable ink and with the prices of printers going down,
life couldn't be rosier. . . er, more magenta.

For those still conserving ink, feeling a little cyan right now...

-Taliesyn
__________________________________________________ ____________
For the record, Taliesyn is not affiliated with any suppliers of
consumables.

The majority of consumers are almost completely
clueless in this respect, and many of them will
end up buying the cheapest printers with the most
expensive (per ml) cartridges.

There are some business class inkjets such as the
HP1200 with somewhat cheaper ink.

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:WueQd.168$DC6.10@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com.. .

People who have low print volumes, or who have had poor previous
experiences with 3rd party inks may be making a better choice for
themselves. I'm not sure they should be judged harshly.

And, as you said, printer prices would be much, much higher. They may
well be again soon, as legislation comes to be regarding refillability
of ink cartridges.

Personally, I would like to see the business model return to more costly
printers and less expensive inks, because it provides an environmentally
better incentive to people maintaining and keeping their printers longer.

Art

pete wrote:

People can (and do) think what they may about Epson's business approach.
I think it is somewhat unfair that they design their cartridges now to
make them very difficult to refill properly, and also made it very
difficult to make a compatible cartridges that works correctly with
their newer printers. They also own rights on some very unique ink
formulations.

Simply put, the newer Epson cartridges and hence their printers, are
designed to work together. Due to the quantity Epson makes of both, it
is cost effective to make these complex systems that tend to sabotage
3rd party brand cartridges. It is not the same deal it used to be with
Epson cartridges which were very low tech in design, and inks were
simple dye types.

Yes, inks are costly, yes, they are much more than they are worth, but
as some others have mentioned, you can't really expect the printer, the
warranty and the inks for free, or nearly so. And, I don't think it is
ethical to ruin your printer using unsanctioned inks or cartridges and
then expect the manufacturer to cover the warranty.

If you want an Epson printer today, expect to pay for Epson ink
cartridges as part of the cost of running the printer, or be willing to
risk 3rd party inks and cartridges, but accept responsibility for
failures to the print heads or poor print results. You may indeed hit a
good compatible, and save big bucks, but you also may hit some dogs and
that is your risk to take.

Art





Kevin wrote:

Why not consider lowering the ink prices as a way to win over customers.
If they advertised and guaranteed ink prices for, say, at least 2
years, that might work...

Art

Taliesyn wrote:

Neither the current Epson inks (particularly the Durabrite and
Ultrachrome), or cartridges tend to be easily replaced and made to work
well with the more recent Epson printers.

They are not your father's (or yours) SC740... ;-)

Besides, I think you have an ink addiction, and should be cut off cold
turkey ;-) Not green with envy.

Art

Taliesyn wrote:

"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:CVlQd.407$%y.292@clgrps12...

[..]

Many don't think its ethical for Epson et.al. to charge such extortionate
amounts for ink, and most consumers aren't going to let minor details like
ethics affect what they do with their printers.

Let me give you an example:
Epson R200 - £70.00 (with set of 6 inks)
Set of 6 Epson inks for R200 (@ 10.99 each) - £65.94
Set of 6 expensive compatible inks for R200 - £18.12
Set of 6 cheap compatible inks - £6.89 (from
http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk)

*Why* would I want to buy Epson inks when I can get a complete set for less
then the price of ONE Epson cart? Granted the print quality and lifespan of
the prints might be slightly better, but do you think people who buy what is
effectively the bottom of the range printer are _that_ bothered by 100%
prefect prints that might last a few years more??

If the compatible's ruin the head, so what? After ONE set of compatible's
have been used - I've already saved the cost of a new printer! If it fails
during the warranty, so much the better as I get a new printer for free too.


You do that if such it your want. Most of us realise a good thing when we
see it and will continue to exploit manufacturers for as long as they try to
exploit us.

How much longer do you think it will be before somebody (probably Lexmark)
goes bust because their marketing model fails? - Probably a lot sooner than
you might first think.

Arthur Entlich wrote:

The ink costs them very little and they make a bundle selling it. It is
their cash cow. The printers are the beautiful toys they design to
entice us into buying their printers, which will of course force some of
us to buy their money making cartridges (money-making for them :-).
Remember, they only have to sell two complete sets of Canon cartridges
to cover the cost of a Canon iP4000 in Canada. They can easily keep
lowering the printer prices.

And lowering the cost of a Canon cartridge by $5 would still be a
joke because they'd cost about $15 instead of $20 CDN each. I can
refill a complete set for about $5. Unless Canon cartridges can be
obtained for about $20 to $25 for a set of four or five, I'm not
interested.

-Taliesyn

Arthur Entlich wrote:

My first thought is that it's going to hurt Epson's share of the market
in the long run. There are many of us who before buying investigate the
ease at which printer cartridges can be refilled. Unless, of course,
cartridge costs mean nothing to them.

No, they're not. Interestingly, my first inkjet, the Epson 500 is
still running faithfully for my father (black cartridge only, the
color is installed but it's been empty since 1997 or 98?). He only
uses it once or twice a week at most to print a sheet or two. I refill
it for him and it rarely seems to clog.

Yeah, I know. After refilling I like to wear the colorful stains on
my fingers as a badge of honor. Gloves? . . . bah, humbug. A little
color is good for you. Hey, women go out of their way to paint their
nails...

-Taliesyn

They're not that hard to fill once you figure out how. Harder than
cartridges with sponges, but then they hold more ink in the same space
than a sponge filled one would.

You need two syringes (one in the outlet port) and a way to seal the
other syringe to the smaller of the fill holes so you can push ink into
the cartridge and have the air blow through it and out into the outlet
port syringe (with no plunger).
Clog-Busting Plastic Needle
(http://www.ink-refills-ink.com/1accessories.php) might help, or use
silicone glue to make a flexible seal.
To then seal the resulting hole (cut plastic away with sharp x-acto)
hot glue can be used or for th 4xx cartridges Stratitec now makes a
rubber plug: 16 reusable Extra Large Plugs
(https://stratitecstrat.secure.powweb...rt/EIRP416.php)

As a general tip for hot glue sealing of anything, it can help if you
get a piece of smooth flat metal and spray a little Prestone Silicone
Lube (auto parts store) on one side. That will work to flatten &
smooth the hot glue, and yet will come off easily.

almost all product prices drop (some substantially) when the manufacturer
brings out a new model. Have you ever purchased shoes, a suit, or shirts at
25 to 50% off retail during a sale? Stores do this to boost sales with loss
leaders, clear merchandise to replace it with a new season's stock, or to
clear the shelves for inventory reduction before tax time. For printers it
is often wise to buy at the end of a model in the marketplace unless there
is such a great improvement in technology or functionality that you must
have the latest model. One such change was with the Epson durabrite inks
for archival printing. Since I didn't need arachival printing I stopped
using a reasonably good Epson printer that presented some difficulty in
refilling and opted for a Canon i960 which prints fabulous color photos and
has the easiest cartridges to refill. Costco glossy photo paper and MIS
inks provide great photo printing at extremely low cost. Just don't leave
them out in the sun as they will fade (like other dye based inks). There
are some high quality refill inks and aftermarket cartridges - you just have
to follow newsgroups and internet postings long enough to find out which
ones to use.


"sherwindu" <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:421043AE.E6DE10D1@comcast.net...

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 04:01:58 GMT, measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
wrote:

because I would definitely use their inks (except where I need a CIS
because of the volume of prints).

--

Hecate - The Real One
Hecate@newsguy.com
veni, vidi, reliqui

Burt wrote:

Absolutely correct about end of line purchases - the i960 can be had in
for $149 CDN right now (I forget which store).

And yes, Canon cartridges are the easiest to fill. I've actually filled
all four major brands and can vouch for that. I've always called Canon
cartridges the "sexiest of the bunch", because of their nifty design and
looks.

Costco Glossy Photo Paper is indeed thick and wonderful, and finger
friendly, even fresh out of the printer! Now if they would only also
sell 4x6 inch precut sheets.....

And absolutely right about quality refill inks and aftermarket cartridge
being out there. Experimenting with beginner refill kits is also a good
way to try out different inks. Hobbi-Colors sells kits along with very
nice blank cartridges with a large plastic screw fill hole. These are
very well made. I have set on standby that I need to test more to see if
I'd like to go their route some day.

A pleasure to comment on someone with some common sense for a change ;-)

For BCI-6 inks I did a test of some major aftermarket brands here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=12198835

Found out some interestng things in the process.

I have an i960 (got a $50 rebate on it, still wish I'd waited for the
Pixma i5000) and refill my MIS blanks with www.rjettek.com's OCP inks
presently, except for black for which I use WJ1109 Dark Black from
Image Specialists. MIS also has blanks for Epson printers I think
(www.inksupply.com).

I'd have to argue that the HP 56/57 are easier to fill than even the
BCI-3/6 cartridges, but as a fan of pens that let you view your ink
level I do like the transparent design.