hai all,

i hope most of you have recognised me. 1st of all this post is not
about C++, it is about general programming. i know about functions,
variables, compilers, interpreters etc etc but i have never done any
real-life coding. i am trying to learn C++ as most of the jobs in my
area are for the graduates/PGs carrying these skills:

1.) C++
2.) OOA & D
3.) Design-Patterns (programmers who can comprehend at least 50% of
"Design Patterns" by GoF)
4.) experience in real-life C++ projects.

now there is only one good book available in my area: "Stroustrup" (by
good book i mean an author who thinks C is not prerequisite for C++). i
am trying to learn C++ from it but from last 2 months my progress is
not so good. i only know just a handful of C++ constructs. i am not
even able to understand the "Desk Calculator" programme in chapter 6
which forms the basis of chapter 8 & then 9. i am not even able to
think of the problems that i should post. one day i tried to read
"K&R2" i came into immediate programming mode & satarted to write small
useful programmes given in exercises but i am avoiding C as it is not
useful to my situation & even i if put time to learn C it will only
increase the gap between me & C++ & hence between me & the job, the
opprtunity to make & stand on my own feet at age 25. hey, dont take it
wrong, the Hacker within me loves C but the corporate does not :-(

i think the problem has more to do with "immamturity & newbiness" to
programming than with C or C++. i am confused & worried about my future
& my younghood.

what do you suggest?

arnuld wrote:

You are trying too hard. If you indeed have the knack for programming, pick
an easier language, such as Python or Ruby. Just download it and start
playing.

Hard languages are just that; hard, and you shouldn't blame yourself about
that. Such languages are very difficult to work with, and they slow projects
down when used inappropriately. Most programming is about
command-and-control between pre-existing modules, such as a GUI and a
database. Learn that, and you will be marketable.

--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!

Damnit! Will you ever stop whining? Every time I see you, you're whining
about something you need or can't do. You should get off of your lazy
butt and go find something.

No one cares if you get a job at Taco Bell flipping taco shells, just
don't burn yourself on the hot grease.

You should get off of your lazy butt and do something, other than, post
whining up in a NG about your worthless existence. You're 25 years old
whining like a baby, get yourself together man and get some kind of a life.

van Helsing

arnuld wrote
(in article
<1166893540.143338.6350@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.c om>):

I'd like to say that I have, but why should I have recognized
you again? I've searched for clues to your identity from your
post, but the closest I can come is what appears to be an
intentionally mispelled name to get a short gmail address.

Since this is not a newsgroup specific to C++, we probably don't
need the warning label. :-)

The rest of your post hints that this might not be quite as true
(yet) as you would like.

What is a "PG"?

Amazon and other online booksellers allow you to not be limited
by your "area". Check them out.

Some people take longer for the initial "lightbulb" to come on.
Not everyone responds equivalently to different writing styles,
so a "great book" for one person might be a "bad book" for
someone else. Also, if you stick around in this business long
enough, you'll find that the more languages you know, the easier
the next one will be to pick up in general. The first one is by
far the hardest hurdle.

There is a newsgroup specifically for people trying to learn
C++, I don't subscribe to it, but I'm fairly sure the name of
the newsgroup has "learn" and "c++" in it.

Sounds very promising. Could be the writing style issue I
mentioned previously, or it just might be that as many people
agree, K&R/K&R2 represents some of the most clearly presented
and concise information on a programming language ever put on
paper.

I'm not sure that is the case. Again, understanding more
languages helps to better comprehend programming in a broader
context. Much (most?) of programming is about problem solving,
not knowing specifics about the language itself in isolation. C
!= C++, and C is not a subset of C++, as you apparently have
recognized for yourself. That said, there are a lot of
similarities, and learning C shouldn't /harm/ you for C++,
especially from something as straightforward as K&R. I can't
say that all (or even most) C books are good. Some are
downright horrific.

If the sample problems from K&R2 seemed to make sense to you,
you might consider looking at some of them and attempting to use
the problem descriptions as fodder for C++ practice. By that, I
mean to try and take some of them and solve them using C++
instead of pure C. It may not make sense in all cases, but will
in some. Perhaps that will be helpful. Also, using a single
book on C++ that you are admittedly not getting along well with
probably isn't such a good idea. Despite the author's
relationship to C++, you may find the writing style doesn't fit
your own "reading style". Pick up some other books and see if
things improve. Finally, take a peek into the newsgroup
dedicated to learning c++ and see what they might offer up.

--
Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those
who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

Randy Howard wrote:
I assume a postgraduate (student?)

arnuld wrote:
First of all, don't worry about learning some C. It won't increase the
gap between you and C++, because C++ was designed to be easy to learn
if you already know C.

In fact, a general rule is that it is good to know several programming
languages. Knowing several languages makes you more useful to an
employer because there are more tasks you could work on than someone
who doesn't know multiple languages. More importantly (I think), it
helps you because you can compare them in your mind and see the strengths
and weaknesses of various languages. No language is perfect, and it
helps to understand why a language has limitations and how to work
within the limits you have.

Now, about programming in general, my only answer is that it takes time
to develop the skills and the knowledge to be a good programmer. Of
course, you need the theory as well, but the best cure for lack of
programming skills is to write more programs. There are so many things
that become easier as you practice them. It's kind of like cooking:
you can read in a book all day about how to boil or braise or saute
something, but you have to actually do it in real life in order to
learn the art of realizing when a particular food is done and it's
time to take it off the heat.

The good news is, to be useful to an employer, you don't have to know
how to do everything in the world. You just have to know how to do
some things that are useful to them.

So, my advice is this: write the kinds of programs you do understand
how to write. Don't worry if it's really simple stuff. As you
progress, you'll run into things you don't know how to do, and you
can learn them. You'll run into things that make you say "there must
be an easier, better way to do this", and you'll learn ways to do
that.

Also, keep in mind that the Stroustrop C++ book is a good book, but
it is designed to be read by someone who already is an experienced
programmer, but who just don't know C++ yet. So if you want a book,
it might be good to find one that has some simple assignments in it.
They might be in some other language, but that's OK: if you can
translate a program from one language to another, that really helps
you understand the process of programming (and it helps you understand
both languages!).

- Logan

"arnuld" <arnuld3@gmail.com> writes:

Go read SICP: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html
and watch the lecture videos:
http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6...sman-lectures/

Yes, it's not C++. (It uses scheme for the pseudo-code examples).

But your problem is not C++. It's the fundamental concepts. You
could try the hard way to learn OO principles, but the only concept
you need to learn is that of _abstraction_, and this is what SICP is
all about, from cover to cover. Once you get it, you can write any
program in any style and in any programming language, including OO in
C++.


--
__Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

NEW GRAND UNIFIED THEORY DISCLAIMER: The manufacturer may
technically be entitled to claim that this product is
ten-dimensional. However, the consumer is reminded that this
confers no legal rights above and beyond those applicable to
three-dimensional objects, since the seven new dimensions are
"rolled up" into such a small "area" that they cannot be
detected.

i tried that, Ruby, it was easier than C++ & i did some programmes in
it :-) but not useful from the perpective of employment :-(

Hmmmm..... GNU Thales comes to mind, [
http://www.gnu.org/software/thales/ ]

Hmmm.. Mr. Van Helsing, what is your real-name. you are hiding your own
identity. mine is
"arnuld fraser", India, state Punjab.

NO, i can not get my "lazy butt" off. i love programming & i have
decided to work/contribute only to copyleft projects, that is why i
dont use NetBSD, even though i love NetBSD. it has BSD license &
Microsoft has some BSD code in Windows. i dont want to help Microsoft.
i love GNU & i will die with Hacking, it is my love.

"Hacking" is my Life Partner, i can't leave it, i am sorry :-)

what is your name Mr. Helsing? what do you fear of?

Spiros Bousbouras wrote:
YEP, you are right ;-)

special thanks to "Philip", "Randy Howard" & "Logan Shaw" :-)


man-many greeting to "Dr. Abraham Van Helsing" for his 1st post on
comp.lang.c ;-)

special thanks to "Philip", "Randy Howard" & "Logan Shaw" :-)

man-many greeting to "Dr. Abraham Van Helsing" for his 1st post on
comp.programming ;-)

NO, my name *is* "arnuld". if you are talking about "3" in "arnuld3",
3 is my date of birth. "arnuld@gmail.com" was already reserved so i
added my date of birth. there was no reason like getting short or long
address.

:-)

i did not get that.

arnuld wrote:
So you can get jobs programming on copyleft (or GNU)
projects in India ?

arnuld wrote:
One thing you must not do is continuously jump
from one language to another. Settle on one language
and learn that one well. Then you can move on.

On 24 Dec 2006 14:03:31 -0800
"Spiros Bousbouras" <spibou@gmail.com> wrote:

Hmm odd advice I think. When I was taught CS we covered many
languages at once[1] with the aim being to give us a view of and
appreciation of different approaches to programming.

[1] Among them FORTRAN, COBOL, a couple of Algols, LISP, BCPL, Snobol and
several others.

--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
| http://www.sohara.org/

i am trying y hands at oly C++ from last 1 year. i tried Ruby more than
1 year ago, in July - Dec 2005 IIRC.

i am trying my hands at C++ from last 3-4 months. i tried Ruby more
than 1 year ago, in July - Dec 2005 IIRC. after that i foussed on
learning Linux & system programming & after that i learnt Lisp :-)

that was really a good path IMHO :-)

WOW!, what a logic, why i never thought of that first ? :-(
i will check that web-site

arnuld wrote:
Blase for me, I don't want to know your history, although you keep
putting it out there.
Blase for me, who are you to think that you with your minuscule
existence can influence anything? You can't even get a job.

Blase for me, you should be trying to hack a woman, at 25 years of age.
Blase for me, you better find a Life Partner that's Human and a female.

What's wrong with you?

I am just trying to put you on the right path. I fear that you're not on
the right path.

van Helsing