On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 04:22:22 -0600, Mark A wrote:

a slide is a positive image, and its intent is
unalienable and obvious

you can scan the dyes of a slide and reproduce the slide, the scanner acts
like any colorimeter

a negative, is not an image until printed

now, you can just scan the dyes of a negative, and make "something" out of
it, but that will not be the intent of the negative, or an accurate
rendition of the scene, it will be "good enough color" perhaps, which is a
consumer not professional concept


with a negative, you don't only have to scan the negative dyes, you have
to consider what those dyes mean, and they mean some "printing densities"
onto a paper through some printer assumptions in a design, you cannot just
scan negative dyes, you have to ask what those dyes mean

now, the photoCD approach, with which kodak has patents tied up until
2007, says, you don't reproduce the intent of a negative, or the look of a
slide, you unbuild the film back to the capture scene, and such requires
full system design knowledge of the film system, which in the case of
negative requires the paper design information and printer assumption used
in the design of the film and paper

so, if you do not "unbuild" back to the scene, for a negative, you still
need to know the intent of the negative which requires the paper and
printer assumptions used in the design of the negative, because that is
the intent of a negative, to be printed, and you cannot reproduce that
look or intent, without such information, and film companies like kodak
will not release such information, because they want to perpetuate closed
proprietary systems, for architectural control, they want to control the
central systems of you lab, etc., and be the only player in your lab, and
dictate waht media and consumables (thiers) you can use in systems

now, you can just scan the dyes of a negative, and make "something" out of
it, but that will not be the intent of the negative, or an accurate
rendition of the scene, it will be "good enough color" perhaps, which is a
consumer not professional concept


--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Arisocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:59:13 -0400, Comrade wrote:

0) scene radiance
1) spectral sensitivity of film
2) sensitometry of processing
3) inter-image of processing
4) dyes absorptions of film
5) printer assumption (light source, filters)
6) paper spectral sensitivity
7) sensitometry of processing
8) inter-image of processing
9) dyes absorptions of paper

and you start at what you have, and unbuild back to scene, and ofcourse
slides do not have to hae printing, but some of them do

--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Arisocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws

Comrade wrote:
One can get just as accurate a rendition of a scene using color negative
film as with slide film. The main difference is that with a slide, you
can view the slide on a light table and use that as a reference to
compare the scan to. However, what you see on the light table may not
be an accurate rendition of the colors in the scene in the first place.
Indeed, in my experience it generally isn't.

There are a variety of techniques one can use with color negatives to
get very good results. One is the use of a gray card. But even
without that, choice of neutral colors in the scene or even knowing what
the color values should be for specific elements of the scene can get
you very close. Of course, one can't ever match what the eye sees
either with slide or color negative film. Rather than trying to get a
perfect rendition, which is impossible, as Dan Margulis points out in
Professional Photoshop, one should aim for a plausible rendition and
concentrate on getting the important colors right, sacrificing if
necessary less important aspects of the scene. I at least don't have too
hard a time getting as accurate color from color negatives as I see
produced by professionals from slides.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 13:29:51 +0000, Leonard Evens wrote:

you just elucidated a bunch of hacks, please refer to the science of my
orginal posts in this matter with the Subject: Re: scanning negatives

you are talking about "good enough" color, I am talking about professional
and accurate color

--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws

Hi,

"Comrade" <averagejoe@mysolution.ws> wrote:
"professional" category. You are BOTH writing of having some reference;
you are BOTH talking about scanning a reasonable approximation of that
reference. As I see it, the difference between your comments is that
Leonard recognizes the fact that neither reference -- a slide or a
print -- necessarily represents the color gamut of the orignal scene.

Therefore, one is no more likely to get "professional and accurate color"
from a slide than a negative. Both require a "professional eye" to achieve
those results, and such an eye can produce those results from either
media, as Leonard asserts. While your comments about the substrate of the
different media are correct, your assertions about the relavance to
achieving "accurate color" in the scan are not.

Neil

"Comrade" <averagejoe@mysolution.ws> wrote in message
newsan.2003.07.25.15.35.31.548866@mysolution.ws. ..

not able to reproduse the originale scene.


and an added (amber) mask.
--
Thor Henning Wegener
thor.henning@cybeer.no
http://home.online.no/~wegener

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 20:18:11 +0200, Thor Henning Wegener wrote:

then it is a reading comprehension issue

--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:08:24 -0500, Neil Gould wrote:

I addressed alternative rendering for slides, reread, do you realize how
irritating it is to carry on a debate with someone that does not listen to
what the other person says, and goes on, as if he is having a conversation
with himself, find some contriteness for that ego

--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 14:08:24 -0500, Neil Gould wrote:

did not say that, once again another case of you not reading what I said,
clear sign of aristocratic arrogance, no contriteness or vigilance with
regards to one's mind

--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws

Hi,

"Comrade" <averagejoe@mysolution.ws> wrote:
Which means that the user (scanner) must take into account the color
balance as impacted by the color temperature of the projection bulb. Since
bulbs vary in this regard, you are right back in the predicament that you
find so unacceptable about negatives.

imposed by the media.


"...accurate rendition of the scene". It's another rendition, but not
guaranteed to be any more accurate than that captured in a negative. Of
course, you can just scan the slide and make something of it, too. But, if
you think that all slides are created equal, shoot the same scene with the
various available slide films, throw them on your light table, and start
explaining why they all look different.

neither looks like Agfa. So, *the user* is left to determine what these
different renditions mean, and make the appropriate adjustments during
scanning. This is exactly the same scenario that you have with negatives,
and the solution is exactly the same: the user will be the deciding factor
between results that are "professional" and "good enough".

Neil

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:31:43 -0500, Neil Gould wrote:

it is a constant in the design of such

what you are saying is that since it is not perfect, then anarchy is the
solution, and we should just scan and hack and have no science, you are
completely absurd

and variability within an emulsion is not bad, and for professional films
between batches is also reasonable

AND, you can create new color profiles for each emulsions, if you have a
customer geared profiling solution

--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws

Comrade <averagejoe@mysolution.ws> writes, despite their Organization
header saying 'News-Service.com'
Hahaha! <Thunk! (Falls off chair)>
--
Ben

"Ben Newsam" <news@microser.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Ns+Ymuc0lYI$EwmS@microser.demon.co.uk...
| Comrade <averagejoe@mysolution.ws> writes, despite their Organization
| header saying 'News-Service.com'
| >I addressed alternative rendering for slides, reread, do you realize
| >how irritating it is to carry on a debate with someone that does not
| >listen to what the other person says, and goes on, as if he is
having a
| >conversation with himself, find some contriteness for that ego
|
| Hahaha! <Thunk! (Falls off chair)>
| --
| Ben

"Comrade" <averagejoe@mysolution.ws> wrote:
constant, and varies considerably from batch to batch; and film system
data embedded in scanners and CMS are far more constant. Beyond that, the
rest of the photographic parameters, such as reciprocity impact how the
film renders a scene. So, your notion that one can derive "professional
color" via the technology alone is, as such a notion has always been,
mistaken.

parallel between "film system" presumptions for both negatives and slides.
It all really boils down to the simple fact that you need more information
than is present in the media in order to render "professional quality"
scans.

will give "any old fucking color" as your result, and only the blissfully
ignorant will accept that as an "accurate rendering" of the original
scene.

something the truth, even if Goebels believed otherwise.

Neil

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:29:21 -0500, Neil Gould wrote:

your choices are color engineering or no color engineering

no color engineering means more hack and adjustment from bad starting
points, cost money to pay artists do that work, because it is not operator
work, it is artist work, and really, the artist wants a good scan and
image to start with if he can have one, he's not a maschoscist

--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws

Get psych help, soonest, komrad.

"Comrade" <averagejoe@mysolution.ws> wrote in message
newsan.2003.07.25.21.59.16.869087@mysolution.ws. ..
| On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:29:21 -0500, Neil Gould wrote:
|
| > Life must be nice in your imaginaryt world... but, where I live and
work,
| > things are not quite so simple.
|

"Comrade" <averagejoe@mysolution.ws> wrote in message
newsan.2003.07.25.18.24.02.824492@mysolution.ws. ..
saying. Read carefully what Neil is writing. I don't have to repeat it.
--
Thor Henning Wegener
thor.henning@cybeer.no
http://home.online.no/~wegener

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:13:05 +0000, Frank ess wrote:

seperation of church and state is not enough to stop cABAL, new rligion,
new virtue, mental hygiene, and new preists, doctos, psychiatrists, STILL
WITCHDOCTORS, the witchdoctors are still in charge, wearing the masks of
good in the day and creating an asylum, then at night, wearing the masks
of evil and scaring people to the asylum, doesn't require religion in a
GOD, religion in man is enough, see here
http://www.mysolution.ws/cabal.htm

and we know there is a CABAL

Cabal - Those net citizens who by their own consensus reality, set

themselves apart from and superior to usenet users and use this

illusory superiority to restrict or censor any usenet user's

attempts at communication through usenet.



Censorship - The attempt, successful or not, by an arbitrary set of

human beings to remove the ability of any other arbitrary but

disjoint set of human beings to perceive the intended Message

of a human being.



http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet/freedom.html

http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet/



and Dave and the Freedom Knights WON THEIR FIGHT, see here

http://www.killfile.org/faqs/free.faq



AND SEE HERE DETAILED WAYS CABAL OPERATES

http://www.mysolution.ws/cabal.htm

--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:24:10 +0200, Thor Henning Wegener wrote:

then it is an intelligence issue, or perhaps arrogance

--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 22:38:38 +0000, Jason O'Rourke wrote:

tell me what in my sig, is not worth having in my dig, and we'll talk
about getting it out, and maybe replacing it with something better, I have
a newsgorup alt.religion.rational for discussion of life philosophy and a
blog http://www.mysolution.ws/blog

--
Comrade
see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws
the aristocracy was the problem in 1776, the aristocracy is the problem today
http://www.aclu.org/dissentreport
Aristocrats CRUCIFIED Jesus
we must close the door by which aristocracy arises

Statements of supposed science, without statistics, are just as much religion,
and ONLY statements of faith as any religion, or statement of faith,
except they profess the supposed scientist is God, even more
dangerous than religion or God. There is no science, without a statement of
statistics, AND any statement without statistics, is a conjecture of faith
by the professor of such statement, and the "believer". An ethical
house cleaning of science and government is in order.

"Does God want goodness? or the choice of goodness?
Is the man who chooses bad, somehow better,
than the man who has the good forced upon him?"
a quote from the movie, A Clockwork Orange, Kubrick

Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage.
Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding
without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when
its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution
and courage to use it without direction from another. Sapere aude!
"Have courage to use your own reason!" - that is the motto
of enlightenment.
Kant -- What Is Enlightenment? 1784

"It all sums up into one single purpose,
the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live...
and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
-- Roger Baldwin, Co-Founder ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union)

"Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in
Timothy Leary's dead, No No No No, He's outside, looking in"
MOODY BLUES

"Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:6
(religious and political leaders that are hypocrites)

(leaven is yeast, AIR IN BREAD, bullshit, fluff, marketing, snake oil - HYPOCRISY)

"How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."--Matthew 16:11-12

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."--Matthew 23:13

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."--Matthew 23:14

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Matthew 23:15

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."--Matthew 23:23

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."--Matthew 23:25

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."--Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,"--Matthew 23:29

"And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."--Mark 8:15

"And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,"--Mark 12:38


see my ROAD TO THE UNITED FRONT http://www.mysolution.ws