On 4 Nov 2003 04:19:25 -0800
shortestcircuit@yahoo.com (Mrs. Kerchief) wrote:

Are you looking for current technology or the whole history? Current
technology google "ATA-100", "ATA-133", "UDMA", "EIDE", "SATA", "SCSI",
"U160", "U320" and "Fibre channel" (note that's "re", not "er") and you
should after suitable fine tuning of your search find out all you wanted
to know.

"Access time" is loosely speaking the time required for the mechanical
parts of the drive to move into position to read or write whatever data
you need to read or write, while "transfer rate" is the amount of data
that can be read or written in a given amount of time.


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

I'm a freshman Computer Systems Technology student at a junior college
where the instructor's cancelled 7 classes in seven weeks and cuts
hour and a half lectures to twenty minutes, tops. When he doesn't
"lecture" he shows old PBS videos. I don't have previous experience
with computer hardware.

Exactly how many kinds of hard drives are there? Out of the blue he
made us do a search for three hard drives and get their access time
and transfer rates. We have not talked a single word about hard
drives let alone access time and/or transfer rates. Hardly anybody
knew what he was talking about.

He told us to look up ATA-100's and "Scuzzies." I know that means
SCSI. I just want a link or site where the difference between hard
drives and the major brand name/models could be explained, and also
exactly what access time and transfer rate mean. (I'm assuming access
time deals with the CPU, but, heck, maybe it has to do with the OS or
application files.)

TIA.

"Mrs. Kerchief" <shortestcircuit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dbbaacf2.0311040419.48f151c2@posting.google.c om...

I would look up data on ATA, SATA (Serial ATA) and SCSI drives. They all use
similar rotating magnetic media to store the raw data but have different
interfaces to the PC.

Not quite. What he is talking about is .....

Access Time
-------------
When the CPU tries to read data from the drive there is a delay while the
recording heads in the drive are moved radially to the right point on the
disc and then a further delay of upto one revolution until the right bit of
data is under the head. The total Access time is the sum of these two
delays. The access time will vary depending on where the heads were in
relation to the data when the CPU made the read request so manufacturers
quote an average figure.

Transfer Rate
-------------

Once the heads are in the right place and data starts to be retrieved the
"transfer rate" is the rate at wich data arrives at the CPU. It is limited
by ....

a) the rate at which data come off the media (which depends on the
rotational speed and bit density)
or
b) the speed of the interface between the drive and the CPU.

Which ever is the slower

Tricks
------

Various tricks can be used to improve the above - for example by employing a
"Cache" in the drive or using multiple drives arranged in an array (look up
RAID).

More important than your questions is the fact that this instructor is
depriving you of the education you are paying for. It sounds like he knows
little and just wants to make it easy on the students so he doesn't have to do
any work or show competency. Rather than looking up specs for hard drives
(yeah, that'll get ya a good job), have you considered going to the Headmaster
or Dean of Students and complaining? I'd demand a refund and a review of this
instructor.

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 06:00:54 -0500, "J.Clarke" <jclarke@attglobal.net>
wrote:

Feels weird to see a British word in computer technology ;-)

--
;-)

This doesn't sound like a very good instructor.

However, even the best of professors, at the most prestigious
universities, will assign "homework" on topics not covered at
all during any of the lectures.

This is one of major differences, you will find, between
high school and college. In college, you don't get "spoon
fed" knowledge. You need to go out and hunt it down for
yourself.

In the real world, there will rarely be anyone to teach you
what you need to learn or found out or solve, as life and your
job progress over time. Indirectly, assignments on topics
which weren't covered in class teaches you how to find answers
on your own. To learn the process. This is more valuable
than, say, knowing the actual access times or transfer rates.

Hopefully, no one here will simply give you the answers and
deprive you of this valuable lessen.

"Mrs. Kerchief" wrote:

"Walt" <Walt@Early.com> wrote in message news:3FA7ED23.DA0E21A@Early.com
Yes, one can always hope for that .000xyz percent chance
that no one will answer. You must be new to newsgroups.

Do a search on the internet, like "EIDE help", "ATA help", "SCSI help" or
"Serial ATA help"

Hard drives brands, Western digital, Seagate, Hitachi, IBM, Fujitsu, Maxtor,
Hewlett Packard, Samsung.
Past names Quantum, Conner, Micropolis.

In the past 15 years, PCs mostly used IDE, then came EIDE (Enhanced
Integrated Device Electronics, 40 pin connector/40 wire ribbon cable)
Then ATA took over, (ATA-133 being the latest/fastest)
ATA-66, ATA-100, ATA-133, still use the same 40 pin connector, but has 80
wires on the ribbon cable.
EIDE and ATA can use the same physical cables, but 80 wires cables are
needed for the higher speeds
EIDE and ATA devices and controllers will work with each other.
One EIDE or ATA controller can control 2 devices.
Currently ATA devices are hard drives, cd-roms drives, cd-burners, DVD
drives
ATA technically is "Parallel ATA"

SATA (Serial ATA) is a newer interface (just introduced this year), uses
just 7 wires, smaller connector.
Over the next couple of years Serial ATA will replace Parallel ATA.
ATA-150 is the current (max speed) standard
Faster interfaces, SATA-300 and SATA-600 will come out in the next couple of
years, still using 7 wires.

SCSI (Small Computer System Interface) was started in the 70s.
SCSI controllers typically can control 15 devices
SCSI is used on Servers and Workstations
SCSI has used 25 pin cables, 50 pin ribbon cables and 68 pin ribbon cables
Apple PC computers use SCSI controllers, Apple now also uses ATA on their
computers.
People willing to spend the extra money will have SCSI controllers/devices
on their "Microsoft OS" PC
SCSI devices can be hard drives, CD-ROMs, DVDs, scanners (and some other
devices).
Current SCSI speed ratings, ultra-160, ultra-320

"Mrs. Kerchief" <shortestcircuit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dbbaacf2.0311040419.48f151c2@posting.google.c om...

You have received some very good responses. I would like to add one more -
learn how to use a computer "Search Engine". They, especially one called
Google, are excellent sources for computer technical information.

"Mrs. Kerchief" <shortestcircuit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dbbaacf2.0311040419.48f151c2@posting.google.c om...

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 02:32:02 GMT, "Papa" <bikingis@my.fun> wrote:

Uh? What's a "computer"?


;-)

--
;-)

"Mrs. Kerchief" <shortestcircuit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dbbaacf2.0311040419.48f151c2@posting.google.c om...

In the bloopers of one my favorite movies there is a line that is
appropriate to your situation.

Blooper line: "Get another actor!"

In your case: "Get another instructor!"

You are paying (presumably) tuition to be taught a particular subject. If
your description of this instructor is accurate you are definitely not
getting your money's worth.

Try a Google search for what you need or buy a copy of "Upgrading and
Repairing PCs" by Scott Mueller. It is a great resource and will probably
answer the majority of your questions.


--
callsignviper


The truth is out there. You just have to look in the right places and ask
the right questions.

Papa wrote:

You beat me to it.
google.com
has all the links you need.

"Herbert West" <reanimator@miskatonic.edu> wrote in message news:ciqgqv48upl1ot2p72ltf5fqpsp2tdpmtj@4ax.com...
Dunno, he sounds like a real dummy if he cant work out how to
turn html off in hotmail for himself, let alone follow your emails.

Anyone with a clue should be able to work out that hotmail/html stuff
for themselves or at most a hint about where thats buried in the config.

Yeah, terminally stupid approach. They should have
been shown how to find that data if they're so stupid
that they cant work out how to find it for themselves.

Hardly rocket science.

And thats completely useless with something as complex as computing.

In spades with a field that keeps changing so quickly.

It may be all that what he's got between his ears is capable of tho.

As can anyone with much viable between their ears.

The only real value of formal qualifications is that they
purportedly do allow an employer to filter the applicants.

In practice many with the formal qualifications are useless.

Yes, if you aint, you're never going to be much use.

Yes, but I dont believe its teachable. You either are or you aint.

Yes, but thats more making it clear what the studys can lead
to with the stupids that havent worked it out for themselves.

Switch your major to Electricity and be an electrician instead.
Better pay for your time.
Less bullshit.
The technology doesn't go obsolete every four years.

Trust me, you'll thank me later.


On 4 Nov 2003 04:19:25 -0800, shortestcircuit@yahoo.com (Mrs.
Kerchief) wrote:

TwoPiR wrote

Thank you *very* much for writing what everyone in my class thinks
(the emperor's wearing no clothes). I'll print out this entire thread
and take it to the head of the department. The only problem is the
dropout rate because of this man alone from Computer studies is
already amazing and his reputation has been made known to the
administration for years. (I'd switch to electronics in a flash if
that instructor wasn't very similar to the computer guy.)

Thanks to *everybody* who took the time to give me an education on
hard drives. It hurts having to get your education on Usenet,
especially when you're paying for it at a non-virtual school. I
googled and got a lot of the model names and manufacturers some of you
mentioned. This isn't a matter of self-motivation; it's a matter of
seeing terms like "ATA-100" and "SCSI" on the blackboard and having no
history lessons on hard drives to let us understand why we were
supposed to do what we did.

Hope you all get such comprehensive like you gave me when you need it.

On 5 Nov 2003 15:18:36 -0800
shortestcircuit@yahoo.com (Mrs. Kerchief) wrote:

Just bear in mind that if he's tenured about the only way he's going
to get fired is if he gets caught with his hand in the till or gets
caught forcing his students to have sex with him.


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

There is a good online book at www.pcguide.com, which covers hard drives and
other computer hardware. Your library should also have Mueller's book. Either
are better than most college courses.

"Mrs. Kerchief" <shortestcircuit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dbbaacf2.0311051518.2def7f37@posting.google.c om...

| Thanks to *everybody* who took the time to give me an education on
| hard drives. It hurts having to get your education on Usenet,
| especially when you're paying for it at a non-virtual school. I
| googled and got a lot of the model names and manufacturers some of you
| mentioned. This isn't a matter of self-motivation; it's a matter of
| seeing terms like "ATA-100" and "SCSI" on the blackboard and having no
| history lessons on hard drives to let us understand why we were
| supposed to do what we did.
|

Mrs. Kerchief <shortestcircuit@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:dbbaacf2.0311051518.2def7f37@posting.google.c om...
Presumably they dont pay enough to attract anything better.

Paying for it does however let you wave the piece
of paper around when you graduate and are applying
for jobs. Thats basically what you are paying for.

Just remember one thing. Unlike high school where teachers spoon-feed the
students, at the higher levels it is a different story. Students must dig
out the info on their own, study it, consider it, and learn it - regardless
of instructor quality. This is especially true at the college undergraduate
level.

"Mrs. Kerchief" <shortestcircuit@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dbbaacf2.0311051518.2def7f37@posting.google.c om...

Papa <bikingis@my.fun> wrote in message
news:NIhqb.2323$Z25.582@newsread4.news.pas.earthli nk.net...

Yeah, I've never been convinced that formal lectures
etc make any sense at all at the tertiary level.

Dinosaur stuff.