Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

Daniel,

I am pretty sure that if the users are directly interacting with CRM via the SDK, then you need a license for those users. The key here is that they would be using the SDK (ie. MS CRM). There would be no issues if you were to write custom code that went directly against the tables.

Matt

"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

I think thats essentially what happens......supported customizations are applications that you "link" into CRM, but it never actually "integrates" in the sense that you can change the core of CRM or need the core of CRM to run. My apps can run independantly from the CRM app.

there was a thread on here a while back where John O'Donnel noted that this is indeed illegal if the user does not have a CRM license.......regardless of the SDK, if information is pulling off the CRM database, you need to have a license for that user.......check to EULA, or search for that post

-Gary

"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

Thank you Matt, Gary. I thought it would be like you two say. I just wanted to be sure.

Daniel
"Gary" <gary.rey@NOOOOSPAM.virtium.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:O1VeI5pkDHA.708@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
I think thats essentially what happens......supported customizations are applications that you "link" into CRM, but it never actually "integrates" in the sense that you can change the core of CRM or need the core of CRM to run. My apps can run independantly from the CRM app.

there was a thread on here a while back where John O'Donnel noted that this is indeed illegal if the user does not have a CRM license.......regardless of the SDK, if information is pulling off the CRM database, you need to have a license for that user.......check to EULA, or search for that post

-Gary

"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

I can confirm that even users changing data from an app that uses the sdk need a license. Example - you create a web portal that talks to crm using the sdk. Every user accessing the portal needs a license.

I have confirmed this on multiple occasions with the Microsoft CRM product group and had it confirmed by their legal department. their response was any user accessing crm data in any way be it through a web app or pda etc must have a crm license.


"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

Thank you John
"John O'Donnell" <csharpconsulting@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:#f#2HJqkDHA.2200@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I can confirm that even users changing data from an app that uses the sdk need a license. Example - you create a web portal that talks to crm using the sdk. Every user accessing the portal needs a license.

I have confirmed this on multiple occasions with the Microsoft CRM product group and had it confirmed by their legal department. their response was any user accessing crm data in any way be it through a web app or pda etc must have a crm license.


"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

That'd be like saying we need to pay a Great Plains user license for every customer we invoice.
"John O'Donnell" <csharpconsulting@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:%23f%232HJqkDHA.2200@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I can confirm that even users changing data from an app that uses the sdk need a license. Example - you create a web portal that talks to crm using the sdk. Every user accessing the portal needs a license.

I have confirmed this on multiple occasions with the Microsoft CRM product group and had it confirmed by their legal department. their response was any user accessing crm data in any way be it through a web app or pda etc must have a crm license.


"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

actually no, it would be like saying that you would need a license for every great plains customer who wanted to
connect to you to view their data.

hopefully microsoft will work out some sort of portal licensing as there are many companies like a service department where they want customers to connect and read the status of their cases etc
"dh" <dd> wrote in message news:uwxmHO0kDHA.392@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
That'd be like saying we need to pay a Great Plains user license for every customer we invoice.
"John O'Donnell" <csharpconsulting@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:%23f%232HJqkDHA.2200@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I can confirm that even users changing data from an app that uses the sdk need a license. Example - you create a web portal that talks to crm using the sdk. Every user accessing the portal needs a license.

I have confirmed this on multiple occasions with the Microsoft CRM product group and had it confirmed by their legal department. their response was any user accessing crm data in any way be it through a web app or pda etc must have a crm license.


"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

So printing out a text file copy of a service order status report every 5 minutes and putting it on my web site for the customer would not require a license but logging into a custom web page and displaying them directly from the database does require a license? What about if I printed the service order out on paper, scanned it in and posted it on the web site? What about intermedite data stores?

MS owns the processing components and I own the data. Letting a customer view data through my extensions is not a process component. I see web-based access as no different than printing out the information and mailing it to the customer, just a more efficient means of doing so.

MS's response may be legal but it is ridiculous. There is line, but they need to get off the crank and move it back to where it belongs.

"John O'Donnell" <csharpconsulting@nospam-hotmail.com-nospam> wrote in message news:eVmEe62kDHA.2488@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
actually no, it would be like saying that you would need a license for every great plains customer who wanted to
connect to you to view their data.

hopefully microsoft will work out some sort of portal licensing as there are many companies like a service department where they want customers to connect and read the status of their cases etc
"dh" <dd> wrote in message news:uwxmHO0kDHA.392@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
That'd be like saying we need to pay a Great Plains user license for every customer we invoice.
"John O'Donnell" <csharpconsulting@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:%23f%232HJqkDHA.2200@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I can confirm that even users changing data from an app that uses the sdk need a license. Example - you create a web portal that talks to crm using the sdk. Every user accessing the portal needs a license.

I have confirmed this on multiple occasions with the Microsoft CRM product group and had it confirmed by their legal department. their response was any user accessing crm data in any way be it through a web app or pda etc must have a crm license.


"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

I believe the caveat is whether or not the custom code uses the SDK or not. If the code uses the SDK, the user is using CRM and requires a license. There would be no legal ground for MS to take in preventing you from writing your own code that goes directly against the DB via SQL.

"dh" <dd> wrote in message news:udd$ya%23kDHA.988@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
So printing out a text file copy of a service order status report every 5 minutes and putting it on my web site for the customer would not require a license but logging into a custom web page and displaying them directly from the database does require a license? What about if I printed the service order out on paper, scanned it in and posted it on the web site? What about intermedite data stores?

MS owns the processing components and I own the data. Letting a customer view data through my extensions is not a process component. I see web-based access as no different than printing out the information and mailing it to the customer, just a more efficient means of doing so.

MS's response may be legal but it is ridiculous. There is line, but they need to get off the crank and move it back to where it belongs.

"John O'Donnell" <csharpconsulting@nospam-hotmail.com-nospam> wrote in message news:eVmEe62kDHA.2488@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
actually no, it would be like saying that you would need a license for every great plains customer who wanted to
connect to you to view their data.

hopefully microsoft will work out some sort of portal licensing as there are many companies like a service department where they want customers to connect and read the status of their cases etc
"dh" <dd> wrote in message news:uwxmHO0kDHA.392@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
That'd be like saying we need to pay a Great Plains user license for every customer we invoice.
"John O'Donnell" <csharpconsulting@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:%23f%232HJqkDHA.2200@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
I can confirm that even users changing data from an app that uses the sdk need a license. Example - you create a web portal that talks to crm using the sdk. Every user accessing the portal needs a license.

I have confirmed this on multiple occasions with the Microsoft CRM product group and had it confirmed by their legal department. their response was any user accessing crm data in any way be it through a web app or pda etc must have a crm license.


"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

During the beta of MSCRM v1.0, I asked this question, since I was doing SDK development.

The answer from the legal department, which was not posted to the message board I asked the question on was that only 1 license is needed ( and anyone who connects through the SDK would "share" the license )

I hope this clears it up.

Mark
http://www.mscrm-technical.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mscrm-technical

"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

Mark,

A lot has changed since Beta. Originally you only needed to buy 1 server license regardless of the number of servers, now you need one for each box that the server is installed on.

I think the safe assumption is that if the user is directly accessing functionality provided via the SDK, then they require a license. Almost every ISV vendor I have seen pricing on requires that the user be a licensed CRM user to use their product. If they could work out a way to sell a license for their product w/o requiring the CRM license, I'm sure they would.

Matt

<mark.milligan@palominohill.com> wrote in message news:%23iWVgEXlDHA.2528@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
During the beta of MSCRM v1.0, I asked this question, since I was doing SDK development.

The answer from the legal department, which was not posted to the message board I asked the question on was that only 1 license is needed ( and anyone who connects through the SDK would "share" the license )

I hope this clears it up.

Mark
http://www.mscrm-technical.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mscrm-technical

"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.

All

As said too many times already. I have clarified with Microsoft with both the CRM product teams and CRM legal. A person needs a CRM license no matter how they connect be it through an sdk connection, a device connection whatever. There is not concept of multiple users sharing a license through a web portal etc. I hope this will change in future releases but for now that is the story. Please contact Microsoft if you need an MS official to rubber stamp what i have said etc


"Matt Parks" <Matt.Parks@removetoX_XRevereGroup.Com> wrote in message news:euLeY$xlDHA.1960@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
Mark,

A lot has changed since Beta. Originally you only needed to buy 1 server license regardless of the number of servers, now you need one for each box that the server is installed on.

I think the safe assumption is that if the user is directly accessing functionality provided via the SDK, then they require a license. Almost every ISV vendor I have seen pricing on requires that the user be a licensed CRM user to use their product. If they could work out a way to sell a license for their product w/o requiring the CRM license, I'm sure they would.

Matt

<mark.milligan@palominohill.com> wrote in message news:%23iWVgEXlDHA.2528@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
During the beta of MSCRM v1.0, I asked this question, since I was doing SDK development.

The answer from the legal department, which was not posted to the message board I asked the question on was that only 1 license is needed ( and anyone who connects through the SDK would "share" the license )

I hope this clears it up.

Mark
http://www.mscrm-technical.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mscrm-technical

"Daniel Walzenbach" <daniel.walzenbach.NOSPAM@freudenberg.de> wrote in message news:%233cgetpkDHA.2592@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
Hi,



is it possible to use the CRM SDK to alter the data in MS CRM without using MS CRM itself? Would it be legal - under the assumption that the data could be changed from outside - if e.g. 5 users would use MS CRM (being licensed) and a couple of other users would use another (self written) application accessing to alter the data (read and write)?



Thank you for your help!

Best regards

Daniel Walzenbach

P.S. If you need to contact me simply remove ".NOSPAM" from my email address.