HDTV is due to be launched in the UK next year. Does anyone know of any PCI
TV tuners (future or current) that support HDMI input and are Media Center
compatible?

No there no TV tuners with dvi or HDMI in.

"Gregory" wrote:

> HDTV is due to be launched in the UK next year. Does anyone know of any PCI
> TV tuners (future or current) that support HDMI input and are Media Center
> compatible?

None exist and none are likely to exist due to the cost of hardware
necessary to do real time compression of HD video.

--
Michael Creasy [MS]
http://www.michaelcreasy.com/blog

"Gregory" <Gregory@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:12DDD504-B0F7-45CA-B0AF-5DB2099BCEF7@microsoft.com...
> HDTV is due to be launched in the UK next year. Does anyone know of any
> PCI
> TV tuners (future or current) that support HDMI input and are Media Center
> compatible?

Ok, so none exist at present. But surely the free to air HD programming that
is broadcast in the US requires the same real time compression?? If I am
right, I do not see how one can say that the cost of hardware for real time
compression is a factor preventing the release of such cards.

If Media Center PCs remain unable to record HD content beyond 2006, I see no
future for the Media Center platform. You can record SD content in the U.K.
which was brilliant when I bought my first MC PC in 2003. However, with HDTV
about to go live, the platform is soon to be left dead in the water. I read
that Cable Card will be supported in the US, but the UK does not have cable
card. I consider that Microsoft really needs to look at this from a world
perspective and do it NOW. There is no wow factor in saying that you can
watch TV, music and pictures with a 10" interface if the TV is of poorer
quality than an HD PVR Cable box.

I am honestly horrified that a Microsoft employee could say that there will
be no HDMI tuner cards in the near future, when that would be the only way (I
can think of) to get HDTV from a cable box into a Media Center PC in the UK.

"Michael Creasy - [MS]" wrote:

> None exist and none are likely to exist due to the cost of hardware
> necessary to do real time compression of HD video.
>
> --
> Michael Creasy [MS]
> http://www.michaelcreasy.com/blog
>
> "Gregory" <Gregory@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:12DDD504-B0F7-45CA-B0AF-5DB2099BCEF7@microsoft.com...
> > HDTV is due to be launched in the UK next year. Does anyone know of any
> > PCI
> > TV tuners (future or current) that support HDMI input and are Media Center
> > compatible?
>
>
>

Hollywood would go nuts if you could record movie in HD and 5.1, I think that
the problem.

"Gregory" wrote:

> Ok, so none exist at present. But surely the free to air HD programming that
> is broadcast in the US requires the same real time compression?? If I am
> right, I do not see how one can say that the cost of hardware for real time
> compression is a factor preventing the release of such cards.
>
> If Media Center PCs remain unable to record HD content beyond 2006, I see no
> future for the Media Center platform. You can record SD content in the U.K.
> which was brilliant when I bought my first MC PC in 2003. However, with HDTV
> about to go live, the platform is soon to be left dead in the water. I read
> that Cable Card will be supported in the US, but the UK does not have cable
> card. I consider that Microsoft really needs to look at this from a world
> perspective and do it NOW. There is no wow factor in saying that you can
> watch TV, music and pictures with a 10" interface if the TV is of poorer
> quality than an HD PVR Cable box.
>
> I am honestly horrified that a Microsoft employee could say that there will
> be no HDMI tuner cards in the near future, when that would be the only way (I
> can think of) to get HDTV from a cable box into a Media Center PC in the UK.
>
> "Michael Creasy - [MS]" wrote:
>
> > None exist and none are likely to exist due to the cost of hardware
> > necessary to do real time compression of HD video.
> >
> > --
> > Michael Creasy [MS]
> > http://www.michaelcreasy.com/blog
> >
> > "Gregory" <Gregory@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:12DDD504-B0F7-45CA-B0AF-5DB2099BCEF7@microsoft.com...
> > > HDTV is due to be launched in the UK next year. Does anyone know of any
> > > PCI
> > > TV tuners (future or current) that support HDMI input and are Media Center
> > > compatible?
> >
> >
> >

What is the difference between recording HD content on a cable PVR and a
Media center PC? As long as that content is protected properly (i.e. no
copying, or even content expiration), I see no problem. As I said earlier,
Cable Card will be supported in the US which will allow recording of HD
content on a media Center PC. The UK has no Cable Card and in my opinion,
Microsoft needs to work out a solution for the rest of the world fast.

"Richard Miller" wrote:

> Hollywood would go nuts if you could record movie in HD and 5.1, I think that
> the problem.
>
> "Gregory" wrote:
>
> > Ok, so none exist at present. But surely the free to air HD programming that
> > is broadcast in the US requires the same real time compression?? If I am
> > right, I do not see how one can say that the cost of hardware for real time
> > compression is a factor preventing the release of such cards.
> >
> > If Media Center PCs remain unable to record HD content beyond 2006, I see no
> > future for the Media Center platform. You can record SD content in the U.K.
> > which was brilliant when I bought my first MC PC in 2003. However, with HDTV
> > about to go live, the platform is soon to be left dead in the water. I read
> > that Cable Card will be supported in the US, but the UK does not have cable
> > card. I consider that Microsoft really needs to look at this from a world
> > perspective and do it NOW. There is no wow factor in saying that you can
> > watch TV, music and pictures with a 10" interface if the TV is of poorer
> > quality than an HD PVR Cable box.
> >
> > I am honestly horrified that a Microsoft employee could say that there will
> > be no HDMI tuner cards in the near future, when that would be the only way (I
> > can think of) to get HDTV from a cable box into a Media Center PC in the UK.
> >
> > "Michael Creasy - [MS]" wrote:
> >
> > > None exist and none are likely to exist due to the cost of hardware
> > > necessary to do real time compression of HD video.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Michael Creasy [MS]
> > > http://www.michaelcreasy.com/blog
> > >
> > > "Gregory" <Gregory@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > > news:12DDD504-B0F7-45CA-B0AF-5DB2099BCEF7@microsoft.com...
> > > > HDTV is due to be launched in the UK next year. Does anyone know of any
> > > > PCI
> > > > TV tuners (future or current) that support HDMI input and are Media Center
> > > > compatible?
> > >
> > >
> > >

No, OTA broadcasts are in MPEG-2, it's already compressed and the cards you
just take the bits off the air and put it on the disk.

CableCARD will enable HDTV for many more users in the US. I don't know what
the UK situation or the rest of world is, but we are paying attention and I
hope we'll have a solution but I doubt it be a solution that requires
realtime HD compression, the cost of that is just prohibitive for consumers.

--
Michael Creasy [MS]
http://www.michaelcreasy.com/blog

"Gregory" <Gregory@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2041BEDD-421F-4F46-BFB6-F4FC4754D91A@microsoft.com...
> Ok, so none exist at present. But surely the free to air HD programming
> that
> is broadcast in the US requires the same real time compression?? If I am
> right, I do not see how one can say that the cost of hardware for real
> time
> compression is a factor preventing the release of such cards.
>
> If Media Center PCs remain unable to record HD content beyond 2006, I see
> no
> future for the Media Center platform. You can record SD content in the
> U.K.
> which was brilliant when I bought my first MC PC in 2003. However, with
> HDTV
> about to go live, the platform is soon to be left dead in the water. I
> read
> that Cable Card will be supported in the US, but the UK does not have
> cable
> card. I consider that Microsoft really needs to look at this from a world
> perspective and do it NOW. There is no wow factor in saying that you can
> watch TV, music and pictures with a 10" interface if the TV is of poorer
> quality than an HD PVR Cable box.
>
> I am honestly horrified that a Microsoft employee could say that there
> will
> be no HDMI tuner cards in the near future, when that would be the only way
> (I
> can think of) to get HDTV from a cable box into a Media Center PC in the
> UK.
>
> "Michael Creasy - [MS]" wrote:
>
>> None exist and none are likely to exist due to the cost of hardware
>> necessary to do real time compression of HD video.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Creasy [MS]
>> http://www.michaelcreasy.com/blog
>>
>> "Gregory" <Gregory@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:12DDD504-B0F7-45CA-B0AF-5DB2099BCEF7@microsoft.com...
>> > HDTV is due to be launched in the UK next year. Does anyone know of any
>> > PCI
>> > TV tuners (future or current) that support HDMI input and are Media
>> > Center
>> > compatible?
>>
>>
>>

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:38:03 -0800, "Gregory"
<Gregory@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>If Media Center PCs remain unable to record HD content beyond 2006, I see no
>future for the Media Center platform. You can record SD content in the U.K.
>which was brilliant when I bought my first MC PC in 2003. However, with HDTV
>about to go live, the platform is soon to be left dead in the water. I read
>that Cable Card will be supported in the US, but the UK does not have cable
>card. I consider that Microsoft really needs to look at this from a world
>perspective and do it NOW.

The only confirmed HDTV provider in the UK is Sky from satellite although I
think Telewest may have announced some general intention to provide HDTV cable.

In both cases this is via a proprietary HDTV PVR which cannot be integrated into
MCE except via Standard Definition e.g. s-video.

>There is no wow factor in saying that you can
>watch TV, music and pictures with a 10" interface if the TV is of poorer
>quality than an HD PVR Cable box.

Standard Definition Sky+ picture quality is already superior to that delivered
by MCE.

--
Nigel Barker
Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur

"Nigel Barker" wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:38:03 -0800, "Gregory"
> <Gregory@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>
> The only confirmed HDTV provider in the UK is Sky from satellite although I
> think Telewest may have announced some general intention to provide HDTV cable.
>
> In both cases this is via a proprietary HDTV PVR which cannot be integrated into
> MCE except via Standard Definition e.g. s-video.

I read that NTL have chosen a supplier for their new HDTV Cable boxes
(Scientific Atlanta if I remember correctly) and these boxes will have HDMI
outputs. You are correct that Sky's box cannot be integrated into MCE except
via s-video or composite video, which is why I posed the question in the
first place. MCE TV Tuners simply have to support HDMI to remain useful
beyond 2006.


>
> >There is no wow factor in saying that you can
> >watch TV, music and pictures with a 10" interface if the TV is of poorer
> >quality than an HD PVR Cable box.
>
> Standard Definition Sky+ picture quality is already superior to that delivered
> by MCE.
>
> --
> Nigel Barker
> Live from the sunny Cote d'Azur
>

Unfortunately I am forced to use NTL cable. I absolutely hate NTL for a
number of reasons and will not allow them to dominate my entertainment
experience any more than I have to. I believe that Sky may be introducing
iPTV in 2006, but again wonder how on earth that will be integrated into MCE
without HDMI TV tuners.

"Gregory" <Gregory@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:916C5F07-CECE-4433-8CBF-80DC33316133@microsoft.com...
> I read that NTL have chosen a supplier for their new HDTV Cable boxes
> (Scientific Atlanta if I remember correctly) and these boxes will have
> HDMI outputs. You are correct that Sky's box cannot be integrated into
> MCE except via s-video or composite video, which is why I posed the
> question in the first place. MCE TV Tuners simply have to support HDMI
> to remain useful beyond 2006.

Gregory, the entire point of HDMI is that you CANNOT record what is output
there. HDMI is actually DVI with a different connector and ENCRYPTION.
Anyone who would offer a device which decrypts and records from an HDMI
connector would get their pants sued off.

Aside from that, recording off HDMI does not make technical sense. HDTV is
always transmitted as a digital video stream, and instead of decoding and
reencoding it, what you really want is record the ORIGINAL video stream.

Now that is perfectly possible _unless_ the broadcaster or cable network
provider does not want you to. And if they don't want you to, any attempt
to do so anyway would be illegal - as you can imagine, Microsoft is
unlikely to assist you in such activities.

If the broadcaster / cable network provider _does_ allow recording their
digital signals, then you "only" need support for the respective
broadcasting technology in MCE. Regrettably, MCE is painfully lacking
support for DVB-C (European Digital Cable) and DVB-S (digital satellite),
let alone DVB-S2 (digital satellite as to be used for HDTV in Europe).

So what you probably really want is support for DVB-C, DVB-S and DVB-S2 in
MCE (aside from you cable provider to allow you recording their signal by
not encrypting it). Unfortunately, Microsoft hasn't announced such support
at all.

Regards,«
--
Robert Schlabbach
e-mail: robert_s@gmx.net
Berlin, Germany

Thanks for the reply.

Exactly. The fact that MCE doesn't have support for DVB-C and DVB-S is not
such a great issue because it is all Standard Definition. In 2006, the
difference between what a Satellite/Cable DVR can do and what a Media Center
PC can do is going to be startling. Microsoft simply has to work out a
solution with the satellite and cable companies or the Media Center platform
will be left dead in the water. Personally, I want Microsoft to dominate the
living room, but it simply isn't going to happen if the company doesn't sort
this out soon.

"Robert Schlabbach" wrote:

> "Gregory" <Gregory@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:916C5F07-CECE-4433-8CBF-80DC33316133@microsoft.com...
> > I read that NTL have chosen a supplier for their new HDTV Cable boxes
> > (Scientific Atlanta if I remember correctly) and these boxes will have
> > HDMI outputs. You are correct that Sky's box cannot be integrated into
> > MCE except via s-video or composite video, which is why I posed the
> > question in the first place. MCE TV Tuners simply have to support HDMI
> > to remain useful beyond 2006.
>
> Gregory, the entire point of HDMI is that you CANNOT record what is output
> there. HDMI is actually DVI with a different connector and ENCRYPTION.
> Anyone who would offer a device which decrypts and records from an HDMI
> connector would get their pants sued off.
>
> Aside from that, recording off HDMI does not make technical sense. HDTV is
> always transmitted as a digital video stream, and instead of decoding and
> reencoding it, what you really want is record the ORIGINAL video stream.
>
> Now that is perfectly possible _unless_ the broadcaster or cable network
> provider does not want you to. And if they don't want you to, any attempt
> to do so anyway would be illegal - as you can imagine, Microsoft is
> unlikely to assist you in such activities.
>
> If the broadcaster / cable network provider _does_ allow recording their
> digital signals, then you "only" need support for the respective
> broadcasting technology in MCE. Regrettably, MCE is painfully lacking
> support for DVB-C (European Digital Cable) and DVB-S (digital satellite),
> let alone DVB-S2 (digital satellite as to be used for HDTV in Europe).
>
> So what you probably really want is support for DVB-C, DVB-S and DVB-S2 in
> MCE (aside from you cable provider to allow you recording their signal by
> not encrypting it). Unfortunately, Microsoft hasn't announced such support
> at all.
>
> Regards,«
> --
> Robert Schlabbach
> e-mail: robert_s@gmx.net
> Berlin, Germany
>
>
>